Interview with Jamie Graham - Business Development at KippsDeSanto & Co.

 Jamie Graham says that to be successful in business development you have to be memorable and that every company you meet should have you top of mind at all times.

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Guest - Jamie Graham
Host - Carl Grant
Producer - Seth Grant

Transcript

Carl Grant: 0:00

Welcome to Rainmakers. I'm here with Jamie Graham, who does business development for kipps disanto. But not so recently by Capital One. Welcome, Jamie. Thanks so much for having me. So I've known Jamie for a while in the marketplace, in that she was doing a role similar to mine for law firms previously, and then she made the transition in 2014, to investment banking. So Jamie talked to us a little bit about how you got into business development. And is this something you, like, sought to do as a person in college? Or is it something you happen to into?

Jamie Graham: 0:47

So I actually completely fell into this role. I graduated Maryland, and wanted to go to law school, but decided that I was gonna work at a law firm before committing to that, and the only position that they had available was a role in recruiting and marketing. So I took that role and quickly realized that that I was not a sit behind the desk type of person, and that I was a people person, and wanted to be more out in the marketplace, talking to folks all day, you know, kind of assessing what their needs were and how I could be a resource. So I worked at multiple law firms in a more marketing, recruiting business development type role. And in 2014, after being at Pillsbury for six years doing business development, and their m&a practice, I went over to kips desanto. And it was kind of a natural transition for me, given the industries that we focus in. And it's been an amazing, an amazing ride for the past six and a half years.

Carl Grant: 1:59

So let's talk a little bit about what you did in business development. When you were at Pillsbury, you were there almost six years, and I know what I do, but I assume what you do maybe a little different than Why do you? So how do you cultivate relationships? How do you lower those clients into the firm?

Jamie Graham: 2:18

So for me, when I went over to Pillsbury, I was focusing in several different industries, technology and government contracting primarily. And so I took on roles in the community that focused specifically on building relationships, for example, I joined the Maryland tech Council and took on a leadership role there, I, you know, join the Northern Virginia Chamber of Commerce, commerce, and I took on the co chair role for the Greater Washington government contractor awards. So I became very involved in the industry, and took on roles that would just connect me to other advisors and industry, as well as executives. And ultimately, I just tried to build as many relationships as possible, trying to determine where you know, who was a good referral source for me, and then on the flip side, from a company perspective, you know, meet as many executives as possible to determine where they were in the lifecycle of their business and how I could be a resource and a resource in any capacity, it could be, you know, from making an introduction to another advisor, it could be to, you know, making introductions, potential teaming partners, it could have been, you know, they needed legal counsel for, you know, some intellectual property issue that they had, so really just trying to assess kind of where I could be a value add and cultivating those relationships. And as you know, Carl, are, you know, the cycle is, is very long relationships could be, you know, three to 10 years long before we actually, you know, are kind of a real value add to them in some sort of transaction, because what I was specifically looking for the m&a practice at that time.

Carl Grant: 4:09

So, once again, very relational, not transactional. And, and so you establish the relationship and you are essentially a connector, but is it a, it's a focused connector? Or is it just kind of a person who's well connected to the marketplace who might be able to help with something?

Jamie Graham: 4:29

So for me, it's really being able to help in any capacity, especially at kips right now, we are a transaction based practice. So, you know, some of the relationships that I built at Pillsbury 10 years ago, have, you know, had some sort of transaction while I've been at camps, and so it's really just a lot of touch points. And, you know, being patient and assessing folks needs And, you know, constantly being out in the market being present and thinking about, you know how you can make an introduction and how you can invite someone to a networking event. So yeah, being a connector and being a resource, in any capacity, just always realizing that every company that you meet should be top of mind for you at all times.

Carl Grant: 5:22

So, what's interesting about this podcast is it's focused on business development, which people think it's like a glorified name for sales, but it's really much different than sales. I've done sales, I've, I was in a straight commission, sales job, selling furniture, and if I didn't close somebody, by the time they walked out the door, I didn't get paid. And, and I've had a similar job in telesales when I was still in high school. And this is not that, and I, you know, this conversation with you is really driving that home, and that you're out there call to the idea of cultivating relationship that might not bear fruit, financially for 10 years, seems so foreign to most salespeople who might be listening to this?

Jamie Graham: 6:08

Absolutely, it is, but I think there's a lot of gratification along the way. And, you know, ultimately, when they choose to work with you on one of the biggest events, that's going to happen in their lifetime, I mean, there's no bigger reward, right for them for you, that they that you've made an impression along the way that you've been a value added resource, and that they are choosing to work with you and the company you work for, you know, for such a big, you know, event, so, yes, you know, there's been the little instant gratification along the way, but ultimately, you know, the end result is, what is the most exciting and to be a part of,

Carl Grant: 6:55

so how do you know, when you're not just wasting your time.

Jamie Graham: 7:02

I'm a big believer, and everything kind of comes full circle. So I think, again, it's, it's not who you know, it's, you know, how many people you know, right, so it's a numbers game, I think, in business development, and, you know, in our, in the industries that we focused in, it's a very collegial, very close knit industry. So if you can be a value add to someone along the way that ultimately is not going to transact are ultimately not going to bear fruit for you. You know, it could be a teaming partner that they're working with, that they mentioned your name to, and that you should meet. Or it could be another advisor in the industry that, you know, we've built relationships with, that believes, you know, kipps done a great job. And, you know, so I'm a big believer that everything kind of comes full circle, there's no waste of time, essentially, you know, meeting folks along the way can help you grow personally, can help you grow, you know, your business network person, personally, it can help you drive a new relationship in some capacity. So, um, you know, I will meet anyone at anytime I always say that.

Carl Grant: 8:27

I know, I know, all these things are true, I'm just getting you to say them, cutting them off myself every week, but but it's interesting to hear others confirm what I know. And so, you know, at what point is, is it too much, right? Like, I've got almost 15,000 LinkedIn connections, I'm like, a few away. And if if I touched every one of those connections all the time, it's totally overwhelming, right? And, and so maybe the people that reach out to you are reaching out to you for random stuff that really doesn't have anything to do with what you do. And you want to be nice to everybody and answer everybody. So at what point? does it become too much?

Jamie Graham: 9:10

You know, that's a great question. You know, a first conversation doesn't always lead to a second conversation. But a first conversation can lead to, you know, a new relationship somewhere else. And so I'm always willing, again, to have an initial conversation. And I look at things as there's always a takeaway, and there's always an action item. And you know, that action item could be as simple as just a follow up, it was great to meet you. Last edge, and nothing ever comes to fruition out of that. And that's kind of where the relationship ends because there's just nothing that we can ultimately do for whatever reason it could be shareholders goals, or you know, where the businesses that at that point in time but I think again, there's just always a takeaway. And I think that's such an important message because you want to be memorable, whether it's for them or for you know, a partner that they are working with in industry. And so I think that's a very important message for everyone that's looking to get into industry, or, you know, do business development as make yourself as memorable as possible.

Carl Grant: 10:28

Well, you definitely are memorable to me, because when you and I would have lunch, you would order the exact same thing as me unprompted? I mean, you independently did it. Remember that? Yeah. And, and then you said, I'm your clone or something like that. So I'll never forget that. I don't know that you have that connection with everybody you meet for lunch, but, but I'll never forget that for sure. And hopefully, we'll be meeting for lunch regularly. Again, not the COVID. Yeah. So have you ever thought, Jamie, that, you know, I know, you've amassed a huge number of connections, like I have it at some point you, you think to yourself, I could just sit at home, not leave my house, and my existing contacts, versus going out and meeting new people every day? And you and I both do it. But at some point? Does it seem like insanity?

Jamie Graham: 11:27

Ah, yes. And now I think, ultimately, I always want to meet the net. No, it's always who don't you know, right, who who don't we know, everyone jokes with you. And I care all that. We can't send you any referrals because you already know them. Right. But that's not the case. You know, there are definitely folks out there. Not just in our geographic location, but others that we don't know, I always want to know the net new. But I do reflect a lot on my, my current relationships. And you know, who haven't I had a touch point with. And while that may have grown, that may need a resource in some capacity. But I don't, I'm still always out there looking for the net now for me.

Carl Grant: 12:19

So I found that picking up and moving to another geography, that'll get you going, right? Exactly. I knew I knew 1000s of people in the DC metro area, I came to Austin, Texas. And literally, I knew less than 200. And so it's been overwhelming the past, you know, nine months being here. absolutely overwhelming. Unfortunately, I've gotten introduced to some of the best people in the market, who have introduced me to their friends who have introduced me to their friends. It's been it's been overwhelming, as you can imagine. Amazing. That's amazing. And exciting. Yeah. It's exciting, for sure. And yeah, the net new is definitely there. I'm meeting these younger entrepreneurs that have such amazing ideas and kind of getting involved with their excitement, and you know, working magic and being able to connect them to investors and people that can help them. It's a lot of fun. It's like starting all over again.

Jamie Graham: 13:12

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I would. And you know, same thing for me, when I go to a conference, you know, when I'm seeing all this new technology around space or aerospace, you just get reinvigorated. And it is so much fun to track these companies and to see where technology is going. And I'm excited to get back on the road and start traveling to some of these other markets that we've spent a lot of time on prior to COVID. And, you know, we're just connecting through virtual events. Now, I'm really excited to see, you know, what's transpired in the past year and a half in some of these markets.

Carl Grant: 13:50

You were on a plane yesterday, it sounds like you've you've been powered travel again. And you know, you hit other markets, as well as the DC metro market. Tell me what that's been like.

Jamie Graham: 14:02

Um, so I've only traveled twice. And it's both been in the past two weeks. And I don't foresee any travel, you know, for another month or so now. It's interesting, I think, you know, in our role and business development, going from being out in the market every single day to not traveling at all, and trying to reassess how you're going to be a resource to folks during when COVID first hit, was really, it was challenging, right? Because I was I had five weeks of the like, following six weeks scheduled or travel and for major events where I would be in a conference, you know, touching 50 companies and two days, and that all came to a screeching halt. So I think you know, that transition was was interesting and we had to look and assess how, you know, I could be a value add. And so ultimately it was everybody wants to know what their peers were doing and how, you know, other folks were managing in the market with the telework. And so now, for the past year and a half, it's been, you know, all through virtual zooms, and phone calls, and nothing in person. So being back on the road has been very interesting. I was down in Tampa, and, you know, at a pretty large event down there, and it was everyone's first kind of Reel out. And so I think everyone's really trying to figure out is the hybrid version going to work now, can you do some networking in person, but the content portion of other events, you know, online, so it's gonna be really interesting, I think, I'm excited to be back on the road, even if it's one on one meetings, and not some of the larger events. I think that in our role, you know, putting a face with a name is really important. And it leaves a longer lasting impression. So, yes, back to some travel, it's still very minimal. It's still gonna be a hybrid for a while, I think, at least going into, you know, q3 and q4 of this year, and then hopefully, in 2022, we'll start to see events get back to what they were, you know, pre COVID.

Carl Grant: 16:28

I hope so. Well, it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast. Jamie Graham, thank you for joining us.

Jamie Graham: 16:33

Thank you so much for having me

Carl Grant: 16:35

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